32. The Leader Struggles with Interest

Leaders usually do one of two things: they meaningfully challenge the status quo; or they meaningfully resist a challenge to the status quo. In this episode, Jonathan discovers that he does both. He then struggles with his dislike for the word “interest” in answering this next Amplify question.

01:35 Reflections on how it feels to give that oldest part of you a voice.

04:07 The urge to escape the human.

05:38 Nostalgia is not a vision

06:13 Making our human life together better interests me.

09:18 Demonstrating two forms of leadership.

11:35 The need for tremendous discernment in leadership.

13:25 I have a deep sense that many are living in some form of resistance.

17:50 Do good people have to be swimming against the tide?

19:00 Reference cards: Illumify definition, Enleaven definition, Guidelines.

20:30 Explanation of the Amplify stage.

22:04 Card 27: Why is this in their interests?

24:50 If the vision is truthful, it will matter to people’s hearts first and foremost.

28:22 We can’t make decisions unless we feel something.

29:50 Quickly signing up or seeing it in their interests problematic.

30:50 Interest vs. self-interest.

36:50 The vision may always be self-serving for them, hitting at their secret fears.

38:40 The heartache is the key to action.

41:40 You have to appreciate their state of mind, even if you don’t share it.

43:20 How to harness individual private activity to a public good?

43:48 Final answer.

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